Film cue

[matricks]

Cheers matricks.... by the way, you've been on top form the last couple of days by the way! What's up with you? You must be getting some! Or is it just that Summer is on it's way?!?!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hehe... no comment [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Dazzler]

Hey Moose! Firstly thanks for the response. With regards to the first quote about being presented crap parts, it was (as you pointed out) an over-exageration of what would obviously be a hypethetical situation. It was simply meant to illustrate that we as drummers are often presented with parts that don't even come close to how a conventional and correct drum part should be written, baring in mind they could take the time to find these things out by simply asking us drummers themsleves instead of tapping beats into a keyboard and pressing 'print'!
Composers take the time to learn about orchestration and transpositions of 'conventional' instruments, but often regard the drum kit as an alien entity and don't bother to find out how to notate a correct drum part.... the three exclamation marks was meant to show that it was meant to illustrate the point in jest!

As for hitting the drums hard on this particular take, it felt right to do so and was a purely musical decision. I wanted that sound. I was honest enough though, to admit my previous shortcomings about my volume on live gigs. What you're in fact implying is that maybe there's a corollation between lean patches and the way I air my views on HOD? If I ocassionaly get under peoples skin with a comment, then fine - this isn't life or death and hopefully it will only result in more opinions and views being shared - we can all agree to disagree!

All I can say to you is that this is a drum forum on the net and I'm very happy to rant and rave here as I believe that this a wicked drum communtiy and all of us here have one underlying, unifying passion in life: music. The fact that we all log on and post so regularly means that we all, correct me if I'm wrong, enjoy good healthy banter and debate: it's surely the essence of HOD?
The reason that I can be, as you put it 'robust' with my views is because I can be. We're all conversing and sharing knowledge and if I disagree with a view, I'm fully entitled to voice my opinions. Within reason of course! Do you honestly think that I go around in life shouting my forthright opinions at people as and when I see fit? So for example, if I were presented with a 'crap drum part', I would instinctively make the writer aware of this fact?
The answer is NO Moose, I do have some tact! I would obviously smile and be as diplomatic as possible in order to find out what I was required to play. It happens all the time.... I would then come on here and rave about it to you lot - because I know you'd laugh about it!

It was interesting that you chose to make such a corrolation though. By being completely honest and open about the fears that I have as a jobbing musician, I knew that I was opening myself up more than was healthy to be honest mate and that in retrospect, I was being too self depricating, but I was happy to do so as sometimes, just sometimes HOD NEEDS a taste of the real world as opposed to double bass drum chops, free floating snares and stick twirling.

Ya get me? [img]wink.gif[/img]

EDIT: No offence Steve!! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[...lights touch paper and stands back!!]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 12, 2005 09:56 PM: Message edited by: Dazzler ]</font>

[Lee Collins]

Lol, one more edit for luck groovemeister? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Dazz, nice job. Can I ask you, when you're in the studio, what sort of volume do you play at? I ask this because everytime I've been in the studio, to do a function band demo for, you know, pop and rock stuff, I've always played really hard and usually it's because the engineer wants that for a good drum sound. However, recently on gigs, I've been playing much more conservatively on volume, which in fact, give a better overall volume balance, but more importantly, I feel so much more relaxed playing quieter instead of slamming the drums and consequently, my timing is MUCH better for it, I don't feel as knackered after, and I enjoy the playing so much more. Beats come down where they should, not late or too early. It sounds like you're playing at a modest volume. So my question is, the next time I go into the studio, and in fact, I think my band is going to be soon, should I just play at my comfortable volume, or should I play hard? Often what is comfortable to me, even with rimshots, doesn't come out strong enough when I listen back to the recording. Is it up to the engineer to bring my level up?

[Dazzler]

Interesting Rudy. I think that I was hitting the drums fairly hard for this take as it simply felt nice and right too. The groove is lazy and if I remember, I was smacking them quite a bit! As I said, the drums just had 2 overheads and one in the kick, so it isn't a close miked sounding kit and more an overall feel of the drums. I think the toms sound that way even though I was twatting them quite a bit! (Not a very musical expression - sorry!!)

To be honest, when I'm in a studio I play to whatever level the music dictates really Rudy. If it's with a big band, then I treat it as if I'm on a gig and set everything up nicely for the players and again, probably hitting the drums fairly hard as this is generally how a big band drummer should play, especially on the shout chorus'. If there's a solo in the arrangement, then I will get quieter as it's now a jazz quartet, until the horns come in again.

Normally I DO play up a bit on pop/rock stuff and it's like you said, you need that feeling of power and the drums, especially the toms, need to speak. From my experience, the engineers appreciate this as you really are bringing out the full sound of the drums, but this should NEVER detract from the groove or feeling of the track.
It goes without saying that if it's a take of Girl From Ipanema for example, then I'll play lighter!

With regards to playing pop stuff live, I did a whole load of big corporate pop gigs last Christmas to 3000 people every night on a huge stage. My initial instinct was to leather the drums every night. The volume of the monitor naturally crept up and it all got too loud if I'm honest. The MD asked me to come down a bit, I think this was me being too exited!
According to the sax player who was on the gig, the best I played (or the gig that he enjoyed the most) was the night after a very heavy drinking session and I was still worse for wear!! That night, I played a lot quieter and if I remember, it all seemed to sit a lot better and I wasn't forcing the issue shall we say.

One thing that I have learnt from playing live is that for me, the bigger the venue/stage, then the harder I hit them. THIS IS WRONG and I must learn to remedy this. As you said Rudy, we should play to a level that we feel comfortable with and leave it up to the sound guy, after all, that's his job to make sure we are heard clearly, not ours to smack 10 tonnes of sh1t out the kit!!

Does this answer your questions?

[moosetication]

Originally posted by Dazzler:
Ya get me? [img]wink.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Gotcha completely.

I don't think you opened yourself up too much in the previous post - or here. Speaking as someone who is never going to be a professional musician, it was a fascinating and candid insight into just one aspect of the reality of your day-to-day lives. As the "consumer" (the guy that buys the CDs and goes to the gigs) and "weekend warrior" there is a temptation just to see the glamour.

By the way, I didn't actually imply anything ... I bluntly asked the question! I considered that, as you rightly say, this is a place where people can be frank and honest, it was worth asking ... in a spirit of trying to provoke a thought rather than being smart-aleck and critical.

I'm also not suggesting you should change your ways either. As a relative new boy here, I look forward to your posts - even if I know that sometimes I may have to go and make a coffee and breathe deeply before a second reading...

The main reason for asking? In my day job (CTO of a software company) I am pretty forthright - and it does cause me problems. I don't suffer fools gladly. I know there are people who think not twice but ten times before coming to talk to me, because they fear a broadside. I "get away with it" because I'm good at what I do - but I have been pulled up about it by colleagues over the years. It was that experience - and the fact that robust debate is encouraged here - that led to me asking the blunt question.

[img]wink.gif[/img]

(Stewart uncovers his testicles, comes out of the cupboard, and breathes a sigh of relief)

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 13, 2005 03:16 AM: Message edited by: moosetication ]</font>

[moosetication]

(rats... double-post)

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 13, 2005 04:56 AM: Message edited by: moosetication ]</font>

[PocketPlayer]

I LOVED the tune, especially the Live drum sound. The drum intro spoke to me about the feel of the tune nicely. The space and simplicity was perfect. I find this type of tune very difficult--nowhere to run and hide--requiring a real mental approach to get "into" the tempo and feel. It had an old school R & B thing going for me.

In a word...professional...relating to giving what the producer/engineer asks for. It's hard to leave ego at the door as we all want to make a signiture stamp on what we play. IMO, one of the best compliments is when a non-drummer says I knew who played drums within a few beats of the tune. Those cats that can do this playing a simple groove...well, there ya go...that's why they are the players we love to listen to.

I dug the Live sound. Can't remember where I heard this from, but reading this thread reminded me of a comment about much of the early studio stuff in the 70's. I recall someone saying because of specific production reasons, drummers could NOT hit the drums hard resulting in a sound quality for that particular time period. For whatever it's worth, I've tried playing softer (not hitting as hard, much more relaxed) to see if there was a better sound quality. My main objective is to let the drums breath on their own to represent each tune.

I am fascinated with mic placement (see my thread running on best device for clinics and smaller gig venues)--distance from kit and height level.

[Dazzler]

Moose - nice!! Cheers for the reply mate - It's all good, healthy banter matey!

And no need to cover you testicles. We're all friends here!! [img]rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img]

Pocket - thanks ever so much, I appreciate your comments. As I said before, I just wanted to give a brief example of us as drummers providing a service and playing what is required, to the wants of a producer as opposed to us 'blowing'.

[cjbdrm]

hello? Is this thing on? (tap tap)

[got_a_matchgrip]

Originally posted by cjbdrm:
hello? Is this thing on? (tap tap)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes...now "turn it up to 11"...

Great thread, again...

Now you know why Vinnie does all the sessions [early first page here].

& this is why i too come in here...you get to say things on your mind [within reason - not abuse] that you proably would think twice about [or maybe not!] in "real life, face to face"...like when one says something they think most will think is humorous only to tick some folks off... ;c)

Great thing is, you can "shout" your opinions at one another, but only ONE at a time, without those pesky argumentative interruptions, which would naturally occur in F2F...& also no ensuing fisticuffs result!! [wait, THAT's "old school" - nowadays it's gunfire...no, wait, THAT's also old school...mortars, pipe bombs...missiles, & shoulder rockets...no, wait, that's...anthrax & disease viruses... /:cp

Moose, I'll have you to know that you need to follow my lead...& wear yourself a jockstrap & cup when you log in here anymore...thank me later. [I'd like the Vinnie Joan package...] ;cp

"Gotta lub 'em threads"...

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 14, 2005 03:54 PM: Message edited by: got_a_matchgrip? ]</font>